tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post657598942344446598..comments2024-02-09T16:13:32.416-08:00Comments on Classical Carousel: Persuasion by Jane AustenCleohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-10953275980030707542015-03-29T15:48:25.121-07:002015-03-29T15:48:25.121-07:00"I haven't found very many novels I enjoy...<i>"I haven't found very many novels I enjoy more than even my least favorite of her novels."</i><br /><br />Exactly! I heartily agree!Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-73518870517044758732015-03-29T15:35:35.081-07:002015-03-29T15:35:35.081-07:00I suppose what I really mean, too, is that even if...I suppose what I really mean, too, is that even if it doesn't become my favorite Austen (and right now my so-so memory of it places it in the lower middle), I haven't found very many novels I enjoy more than even my least favorite of her novels. (Admittedly, this is part nostalgia.)amanda @ simplerpastimeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14127945915013121105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-52467915801086084612015-03-29T12:43:45.811-07:002015-03-29T12:43:45.811-07:00It may not have come through clearly in my post, b...It may not have come through clearly in my post, but I really liked Persuasion, I just thought it was weaker than her other novels. Even so, that weakness can be explained because of her health, so all-in-all I think it was as good as it was going to get, given the circumstances. And I can appreciate it for what I can see that Austen was trying to do, in spite of some of the glitches.Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-19004436993325815842015-03-29T12:04:01.846-07:002015-03-29T12:04:01.846-07:00Reading your post, I wonder what I will think of P...Reading your post, I wonder what I will think of <em>Persuasion</em> next time I read it. I don't recall having a strong opinion on it when I read it ages ago, but I know so many people love it that I've been kind of assuming that I would love it on a reread, but maybe not? Of course, I love <em>Pride and Prejudice</em> and <em>Mansfield Park</em> so much, that I guess that's okay. They can't all rate the same!amanda @ simplerpastimeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14127945915013121105noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-33028494527013143872015-03-25T18:33:08.502-07:002015-03-25T18:33:08.502-07:00Well, you may not have been canvassing for brownie...Well, you may not have been canvassing for brownie-points but you got 'em. ;-) <br /><br />I'm sure that your write-up will be great. I'll be looking out for it!Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-34116830761794503942015-03-25T18:28:03.502-07:002015-03-25T18:28:03.502-07:00Anne's quiet sense, integrity and her devotion...Anne's quiet sense, integrity and her devotion to duty make her truly heroic. I actually was surprised when I read that sentence too, because I thought the main theme was going to be how Anne was wrongly persuaded, but instead, duty and devotion to family won out, even in spite of the wrong. I thought it was awesome!Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-15307352386116819132015-03-25T18:25:12.333-07:002015-03-25T18:25:12.333-07:00I'm sorry. I know you love this Austen but in...I'm sorry. I know you love this Austen but in this case, I can't concur. :-(<br /><br />The flaws? I mentioned some to Ebookclassics above but I can think of more. How, with having little conversation with Wentworth, in their first meaningful exchange does Anne deduce that he loves her with little indication to the reader as to why? With regard to Mrs. Smith's behaviour when she thinks Anne is going to marry Mr. Eliot, it is fawning at the least and duplicitous at the worst. What is with the ingratiating manner at the start of their conversation until she exposes the truth and only then does she reveal her purpose. I realize that she doesn't want to offend Anne if the report of their union is true, but it doesn't reflect an honest character to behave in opposition to how one feels and especially about something so serious. Certain characters, including Mrs. Smith, often appear to be placed with a purpose of only being tools for certain idealogies or for other characters to springboard off instead of being developed into real characters. And honestly, it bothered me how we really only got a sense of Anne through other characters for at least half of the novel ----- I like interacting with characters and it's hard to do it when the characters is presented, not from their actions or thoughts necessarily but through the actions of others. Half of Anne's goodness was merely because others around her were so intolerant or vain or grumpy or needy. Don't get me wrong, I think this technique has its place (perhaps in this case Austen employed it to highlight Anne's invisibility) but not to develop the majority of a character. I could go on, but I'll stop. As I said, Austen's writing is so magnificent, a less-than-stellar Austen equals a solid classic from other authors. Here's a link to an essay where the writer echoes some of the struggles that I had with the book. It at least gives some food for thought: http://www.jasna.org/persuasions/on-line/vol23no1/morris.html<br /><br />As to Northanger, as I mentioned to O above, now that I have a base for Northanger, I think I'll enjoy it much more the second time around.<br /><br />I'm not fond of Bloom's critiques. Among other idiosyncracies, he tends to judge certain classics through modern eyes, in which I will echo Pope in that, "a perfect judge will read each work of wit, with the same spirit that its author writ".Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-47010203616602064702015-03-25T15:02:18.448-07:002015-03-25T15:02:18.448-07:00You say: "As she was writing Persuasion, Aust... You say: "As she was writing Persuasion, Austen was ill with the disease that would eventually kill her, and because of this fact, her usual detailed pattern of revision was not completed; in this light, the diminished quality of the novel can certainly be understood. However, while not shining with her usual brilliance, Austen still produced a jewel in its own right, and perhaps more intriguing because of its flaws, as these flaws contribute to its uniqueness."<br /><br />I say: I think I do not see those flaws. Perhaps I (like the great critic Harold Bloom) would argue your assertion. But as I am not prone to arguments, I simply say that I rank _Persuasion_ as Austen's best (closely followed by _Emma_). I also -- weird reader that I am -- like _Northanger Abbey_. Hey, there's no accounting my taste.R.T.https://www.blogger.com/profile/13220814349193561823noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-79053928081111569862015-03-25T13:49:22.155-07:002015-03-25T13:49:22.155-07:00Well, you pretty much covered all the bases here, ...Well, you pretty much covered all the bases here, covering a lot of similar ground that would have likely found its way into my review but have done it with an eloquence and sophistication that I cannot even hope to possibly achieve. I'm not just saying this to gain favor with you or anything of that sort, just being honest. <br /><br />My write-up will be pedestrian at best so I'll just direct others to yours instead. Jason Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08334917645691982404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-82395772049570074452015-03-25T10:36:23.422-07:002015-03-25T10:36:23.422-07:00I enjoyed your review, particularly the part about...I enjoyed your review, particularly the part about the title and how it relates to the themes of the book.<br /><br />I remember the first time I read this sentence, almost feeling like I had to do a double-take:<br />"But I mean, that I was right in submitting to her, and that if I had done otherwise, I should have suffered more in continuing the engagement than I did even in giving it up, because I should have suffered in my conscience."<br /><br />As a teen at the time, this notion of being able to recognize a parent/mentor's advice as being wrong but still feeling you were right in following it was something as foreign to my 1970's mentality as anything could be. But I do think it is at the heart of what makes me and so many readers admire Anne so much.JaneGShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11094501834387622997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-12316434462564949102015-03-25T08:35:29.610-07:002015-03-25T08:35:29.610-07:00I had no idea that you were reading it too!
Hmm...I had no idea that you were reading it too! <br /><br />Hmm ..... because I felt the plot development awkward between the two of them, I wasn't sure what I was rooting for. Wentworth's "playing the field" with many of the other female characters in the novel, to punish Anne, bothered me, and I didn't see any specific occurrence that explained or mended this flaw in his character. And with Anne, while I think I understood the type of character Austen was trying to produce, Anne was left rather flat and uninteresting. I really loved how Austen made this type of character the heroine ------ someone quiet and respectable and solid ---- but I thought the presentation could have given Anne more depth and therefore engaged the reader more stronger towards her. As for matches, honestly, I thought Anne would have been a perfect match for Charles, her brother-in-law. He wasn't the cleverest cookie in the cookie tin, but he was kind and dependable and even funny in his own way. I quite liked him. What about you? What did you think?Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-6366754770961775052015-03-25T08:27:48.156-07:002015-03-25T08:27:48.156-07:00Thanks so much, O. I had your experience when I r...Thanks so much, O. I had your experience when I read Northanger Abbey ..... I disliked it and wondered what the purpose was, but now that I'm more familiar with the background of it, I think I'll enjoy it more with a second read.Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-8997319123393725332015-03-25T08:25:57.662-07:002015-03-25T08:25:57.662-07:00Thanks for the compliment, Jason. :-) I'm sur...Thanks for the compliment, Jason. :-) I'm sure you'll have alot to say! I hardly touched on the deeper aspects of Anne and Wentworth's characters. For some reason, for this read-along I had little to say as I was reading and tons to say when it was all over. Some books are like that, I guess. They have to percolate for awhile before they come alive.Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-15530822875484359242015-03-25T08:15:11.652-07:002015-03-25T08:15:11.652-07:00I just finished Persuasion too! I agree with your ...I just finished Persuasion too! I agree with your that it's not as refined as other Austen novels, but I didn't know that it was her last book and that she didn't even choose the title. Were you rooting for Anne to be reunited with Captain Wentworth?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-72965591756731667882015-03-25T01:45:51.242-07:002015-03-25T01:45:51.242-07:00This is such a good review! :)
I remember liking ...This is such a good review! :)<br /><br />I remember liking Persuasion, but this was before I re-discovered Austen (spent a large chunk of my life hating her and not quite getting it all). Must re-read soon :)ohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01245931629228090133noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-73380201748351724072015-03-24T13:45:08.600-07:002015-03-24T13:45:08.600-07:00You did a wonderful job! There's always more t...You did a wonderful job! There's always more to explore, thank goodness...Loryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08519976394732029323noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-9604142808095739862015-03-24T11:42:29.391-07:002015-03-24T11:42:29.391-07:00Geez, how am I supposed to write a review on this ...Geez, how am I supposed to write a review on this novel now? You've outdone yourself this time Cleo. :)Jason Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08334917645691982404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-51030934422247315292015-03-24T10:43:20.928-07:002015-03-24T10:43:20.928-07:00That's certainly true, Lory, good point. I di...That's certainly true, Lory, good point. I did have the original two chapters to read and compare, but I didn't talk about this issue in my review. I left other issues out too, that would have been interesting to explore; there is just so much to analyze and discuss with Austen that my review could have easily been three times as long. At least it will give me more topics to explore on a re-read. :-)Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-25599012030268871962015-03-24T10:04:18.166-07:002015-03-24T10:04:18.166-07:00Although as you say, Jane Austen could not do much...Although as you say, Jane Austen could not do much revision on this book, it's interesting to see how she rewrote the ending. It became much stronger and more memorable.Loryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08519976394732029323noreply@blogger.com