tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post7876466544516615092..comments2024-02-09T16:13:32.416-08:00Comments on Classical Carousel: Ecce Homo by Friedrich NietzscheCleohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-22332962318157012152016-12-14T08:47:26.812-08:002016-12-14T08:47:26.812-08:00I'm glad that I gave you a chuckle. Nietzsche...I'm glad that I gave you a chuckle. Nietzsche definitely needs to be read with large doses of patience and a splash of humour! Good luck with it!Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-69990334409562782312016-12-12T23:55:02.691-08:002016-12-12T23:55:02.691-08:00Nietzsche is so full of himself that this actually...Nietzsche is so full of himself that this actually might be fun )) I'm not so afraid of it looming on my autobiographies WEM list after your review) I also giggled at your thoughts while reading the book - I guess a healthy sense of humor and a certain relaxed frame of mind is essential for not getting frustrated with Nietzsche ))Arenelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08646965847129179304noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-62815785610318790702016-03-04T21:47:13.862-08:002016-03-04T21:47:13.862-08:00Wow, Beth, thanks for all this great information. ...Wow, Beth, thanks for all this great information. This was my first Nietzsche read, so it's interesting to hear some of his works expanded. <br /><br />I must say that I'm really unimpressed with Nietzsche because I think for the most part, he's very out of touch with human nature because he views everything from his own "kingdom". And his logic doesn't follow through sometimes. To label altruists as having hypocritical moral superiority is misunderstanding the word "altruist" which implies a <i>disinterestedness</i> and a <i>selflessness</i>, so one couldn't fit his description and be practicing altruism. It's impossible. <br /><br /><i> later existentialists addressed this problem by identifying true compassion as spontaneous .....</i> <br /><br />Ah, how very idealistic. Spontaneous action is often driven by emotions. Yet how often do we exhibit bad behaviour by acting out our emotions, ie. yelling at people who cut us off, calling our husband/wife a name when we're mad at them, etc.? We often have to act in ways in opposition to our feelings for our own good and the good of others. C.S. Lewis talks about practicing good behaviour (even if we don't feel like it) and then the feelings for it will often follow. <br /><br />I know Catholicism and guilt are linked, but Orthodoxy and guilt certainly are not, so again, Nietzsche is not quite accurate, but then again, perhaps he speaks only about what he knows. I see that I'll have to have my thinking cap on to read The Birth of Tragedy. Since I'm reading so many Greek plays, it might be wise to read it after I finish them all. <br /><br />Thanks for your thoughts, Beth (and Nietzsche's). So interesting .....Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-58405882747152133842016-03-04T11:57:40.636-08:002016-03-04T11:57:40.636-08:00I haven't read this one , but I've read Th...I haven't read this one , but I've read The Birth of Tragedy and The Genealogy of Morals for a class. We talked about Nietzsche's view of altruism, which (at least according to the Genealogy of Morals) he condemns for what he sees as its hypocritical moral superiority. But he doesn't suggest any real solution to this - any form of altruism that isn't ultimately motivated by guilt and the desire to feel superior to others. My professor said the later existentialists addressed this problem by identifying true compassion as spontaneous. If it's truly unplanned, it's more likely to be the real thing. Nietzsche didn't articulate this kind of solution in his own writings, but someone in class brought up the story of the time Nietzsche intervened in the flogging of a horse, which kind of fits in with this idea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Nietzsche#Mental_breakdown_and_death_.281889.E2.80.931900.29<br /><br />My favorite Nietzsche quote is from The Birth of Tragedy, in which he argues that tragic art can provide an alternative to the kind of transcendence he doesn't like in religion (because religion, as far as he's concerned, associates transcendence with guilt and life-hating asceticism).<br /><br />“The satyr, as the Dionysiac chorist, dwells in a reality sanctioned by myth and ritual. That tragedy should begin with him, that the Dionysiac wisdom of tragedy should speak through him, is as puzzling a phenomenon as, more generally, the origin of tragedy from the chorus. Perhaps we can gain a starting point for this inquiry by claiming that the satyr, that fictive nature sprite, stands to cultured man in the same relation as Dionysian music does to civilization. Richard Wagner has said of the latter that it is absorbed by music as lamplight by daylight. In the same manner, I believe, the cultured Greek felt himself absorbed into the satyr chorus, and in the next development of Greek tragedy state and society, in fact everything that separates man from man, gave way before an overwhelming sense of unity that led back into the heart of nature. This metaphysical solace (which, I wish to say at once, all true tragedy sends us away) that, despite every phenomenal change, life is at bottom indestructibly joyful and powerful, was expressed most concretely in the chorus of satyrs, nature beings who dwell behind all civilization and preserve their identity through every change of generations and historical movement.<br /><br />With this chorus the profound Greek, so uniquely susceptible to the subtlest and deepest suffering, who had penetrated the destructive agencies of both nature and history, solaced himself. Though he had been in danger of craving a Buddhistic denial of the will, he was saved through art, and through art life reclaimed him.” Beth https://www.blogger.com/profile/00181538167994145152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-15992396087123260662015-08-15T09:34:39.092-07:002015-08-15T09:34:39.092-07:00Lol. You're welcome. I didn't know he went...Lol. You're welcome. I didn't know he went mad until I read your post so that's something I'll look into as well. I just want to see in what context the quote appears. I wonder what the overall subject is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-6423918296891231052015-08-13T09:45:58.183-07:002015-08-13T09:45:58.183-07:00I really like this quote, yet it actually illustra...I really like this quote, yet it actually illustrates one of my problems with Nietzsche. On one hand, he will warn you about monsters and abysses, and then on the next page, he will call himself a monster or an abyss. There were often contradictions, if not in his thoughts, then how he communicated them in writing. But you've made me wonder if it was his madness talking, if I really need to read some of his earlier works to get a better sense of him. Thanks for this, Zezee.Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-22655442104850938072015-08-13T05:20:26.502-07:002015-08-13T05:20:26.502-07:00It's "He who fights with monsters should ...It's "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."<br />I often hear/read a simplified version of it that's often misattributed but when I looked it up, I learnt that it's from Nietzsche's "Beyond Good and Evil" so I'd like to read that. <br />I love it because it's true. In fiction and in life sometimes we become what we fight against or adopt its characteristics.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-75693727101583698872015-08-12T08:07:07.175-07:002015-08-12T08:07:07.175-07:00Now, I'm curious ~ what is your favourite quot...Now, I'm curious ~ what is your favourite quote? :-)<br /><br />Glad that I could give you a laugh! I think that he's worth reading --- perhaps only one book --- and after that, you'll probably be inoculated against him. ;-)Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-43480303157285090822015-08-12T08:04:23.789-07:002015-08-12T08:04:23.789-07:00I'm not surprised that you've read Gatto! ...I'm not surprised that you've read Gatto! :-) I went to a conference once where I heard him speak. He's so knowledgable and is not hesitant to express his ideas. I didn't agree with everything he said, but pretty close.<br /><br />Ah, Nietzsche! He is worth reading, if only to be amazed that anyone could think like him. In this book, he really didn't explain his ideas well, he just lauded them, so it would be interesting to see if his actual works were that ambiguous. And I'd like to read something from his non-mad stage, although I wonder if he was always a little mad ...? :-)Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-69803424035038230572015-08-12T05:43:20.377-07:002015-08-12T05:43:20.377-07:00I've wanted to read some of Nietzsche's wo...I've wanted to read some of Nietzsche's work for some time now because one of my favorite quotes is by him but I don't know if I could put up with all that self praise. The narcissism would wear on me. Also, I doubt I'd agree with what he says. I enjoyed reading this post though, chuckling as I read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-20096549152990673712015-08-11T21:40:34.372-07:002015-08-11T21:40:34.372-07:00Oh wow. I would have gone demented after reading a...Oh wow. I would have gone demented after reading a fraction of what you've read of Neitzsche's delusions of grandeur. The education comments are interesting & I was struck the whole Prussian element when I read Gatto's book a few years ago. Well done. You should get a special award for your accomplishment!Carolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06820925595506920754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-28818216561600333072015-08-11T13:24:55.668-07:002015-08-11T13:24:55.668-07:00Great! I'd love to hear your comments after y...Great! I'd love to hear your comments after you finish. What makes Gatto's viewpoint valuable (and yours) is that he worked for years in the system and knows it's weaknesses AND he's also done tons of research. Sometimes his train of thought can be hard to follow but it's because he has so much information in his brain. I also love how he not only investigates the effect of compulsory schooling on education, he takes it further than that, showing it's negative impact on our communities and society. It's an illuminating read.<br /><br />Ruth, has a number of posts on her homeschool blog on the book, if you're interested (probably after you read). http://amightyfortresshomeschool.blogspot.ca/search/label/The%20Underground%20History%20of%20American%20EducationCleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-33431941105982434542015-08-11T12:51:53.217-07:002015-08-11T12:51:53.217-07:00I taught public school for nine years and am as an...I taught public school for nine years and am as anti-public education as you can get. Thanks so much for this information. I am going to order Gatto's book. (I know it might be free but I like to have hard copies.:))Sharon Wilfonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17466621290140789056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-70184787100313768492015-08-11T10:29:51.657-07:002015-08-11T10:29:51.657-07:00Didn't Van Gogh slice off Gauguin's ear? ...Didn't Van Gogh slice off Gauguin's ear? But yes, his painting made up for it. ;-) Ha ha! I'm kidding. I see your point. :-) --- Oh, wait! It looks like it was the other way around ..... or Van Gogh cut off his own ear ...... no one's sure ...... :-Z<br /><br />I enjoyed Harry Potter but the last book ruined it all for me. I'm sure I would have re-read them already if it hadn't been for that book. Ooooo, Russell ....... I tried him once and didn't get far .... perhaps I'll try him again. I'll be interested to find out what you thought of him.<br /><br />Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-11924094163536908932015-08-11T10:24:08.358-07:002015-08-11T10:24:08.358-07:00Ooo, I found this video on Youtube that gives a go...Ooo, I found this video on Youtube that gives a good overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb7iR3JgoOo but it's just the beginning and doesn't cover the many people involved and their ideas and philosophies.<br /><br />Anything by John Taylor Gatto is great. I recommend his The Underground History of American Education (I think at some point you could read it online) --- his other books are sort of simplified versions of this one and don't always contain all of the information. Some of the quotes he includes are frightening. Gatto taught for 35 years in the NY system, winning teacher of the year for 5 years in a row, then quit and has been speaking about the problems of institutionalized schooling ever since. His students absolutely love him and he has been the reason a number of "problem" kids have grown up to be mature functioning citizens instead of dead on the street. I absolutely love him. I read his books first, and then he gives you lots of rabbit trails to go down from there.<br />Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-38072409681190012422015-08-11T00:46:17.986-07:002015-08-11T00:46:17.986-07:00I agree! He must have been really unhappy! But her...I agree! He must have been really unhappy! But here's my thing Van Gogh was unhappy, but he made things of beauty, while this guy...well he lost it! <br /><br />I am doing a Harry Potter re-readathon...just because I LOVE those books so much. I am also about to finish Flow Down like Silver by Ki Longfellow (Review coming up soon!) and you will be OVERJOYED to know I have began reading A History of Western Philosophy by Bertrand Russell! The last one is completely your fault! I see you reading all kinds of texts and here I am reading fiction...so there! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-46418037084199567922015-08-10T17:13:24.828-07:002015-08-10T17:13:24.828-07:00I also meant to add that I found your observations...I also meant to add that I found your observations about Prussian education and it's connection to our own public school format to be very interesting. I would love to study this further. If you could recommend any books on the subject I would appreciate it.Sharon Wilfonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17466621290140789056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-57786443807903513542015-08-10T13:13:10.806-07:002015-08-10T13:13:10.806-07:00I don't think that I've read the ravings o...I don't think that I've read the ravings of a narcissistic madman before, so it was a new experience! ;-)<br /><br />I have a vague interest in taking a philosophy class that covers Nietzsche, however I don't know how anyone can take him seriously. Other than mining for a few interesting ideas (although it's like searching for a needle in a haystack), I'm not sure how one can take anything useful away from his writings. He not only handcuffs you with circular reasoning, which leaves you nowhere, he makes wild generalizations and doesn't back up his thought process, following it through to a logical end. Phew! He's draining!<br /><br />Thanks for the kind words! Glad to see that you're enjoying your vacation!Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-39632704528932616542015-08-10T11:03:52.048-07:002015-08-10T11:03:52.048-07:00Wow! I am utterly impressed. How you read through...Wow! I am utterly impressed. How you read through the rantings of a narcissistic madman is beyond me. I read Thus Spoke Zarathustra (here's my review: http://sharonhenning.blogspot.com/2014/09/thus-spoke-zarathustra-by-friedrich.html)<br />And concluded much the same as you. He picks no bones about "useless" people, who they are (religious, weak, sick etc.) and how they should voluntarily give up their lives in favor of the "uberman".<br />What disturbs me is how many college professors believe in his sayings and when one points out the logical conclusion of his beliefs (like the holocaust) the insist N. was "misunderstood."<br />Very bold review. Good for you!Sharon Wilfonghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17466621290140789056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-6096771886530656272015-08-09T22:21:46.729-07:002015-08-09T22:21:46.729-07:00Hey, you! I was so happy to see that you were abl...Hey, you! I was so happy to see that you were able to at least start this one. <br /><br />His thoughts skid all over the place and it's an effort to keep up. Or he says he's going to be talking about something and then ends up talking about something else (reminded me of Montaigne). I hope you can get through it. Not too many pages and it will feel like an accomplishment!!Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-4358680219791478682015-08-09T22:20:00.470-07:002015-08-09T22:20:00.470-07:00Highly emotional is a good description, yet emotio...Highly emotional is a good description, yet emotional in an unemotional way. He appeared to <i>only</i> be able to connect with people on an intellectual level. I think he was very lonely and lost. I'm enjoying my Canterbury Tales so hopefully they will make up for the slog of this one!Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-53743235466657261932015-08-09T12:13:25.090-07:002015-08-09T12:13:25.090-07:00Your write ups are always so well done! I'm st...Your write ups are always so well done! I'm still plugging away at this read, but I can see you highlighted the same things I did in the portions I've managed to get through. I find it hard to pick the book back up, as it really is a mental workout trying to follow his train of thought. Plethorahttp://www.plethoraofbooks.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-75900705997780540752015-08-09T01:07:11.179-07:002015-08-09T01:07:11.179-07:00What started out (I thought) was to be a review on...What started out (I thought) was to be a review on N's Ecco Homo turned out to be an unexpected walk thru of many of his books! You have exhausted yourself with this blogpost.....whew!<br />You left me with a general impression of N: highly emotional, spontaneous, unhappy, at times even mentally with a brilliant mind he has trouble controlling! Sad otoread he would rather shock his readers rather than quietly reason with them. My compliments for all your reading effort and now you have definitely earned the pleasure of buying a good book you really like. <br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-30429213767462029152015-08-08T08:55:19.453-07:002015-08-08T08:55:19.453-07:00Hee hee! Yes, I do read light books about half wa...Hee hee! Yes, I do read light books about half way through and then stop ........... No, not really. Seriously though, I have finished both Pride and Prejudice and Sense and Sensibility, but I'm stuck on what to say about them for a review.<br /><br />Narrow-minded rants without thought through logic is a pretty accurate description of most of it. He must have been a very unhappy person deep down. Why else would you continually have to tell everyone how great you are? <br /><br />What have you been reading lately?Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7495382709151625398.post-43614632568081424182015-08-08T08:35:13.981-07:002015-08-08T08:35:13.981-07:00Hi Marian! Great to see you around again!
Nietzs...Hi Marian! Great to see you around again!<br /><br />Nietzsche is <i>trying</i>. And therefore, somewhat exhausting. But he is interesting. I was re-reading some of this book today and wondering how he could believe some of the things he did. I think his philosophy would be perhaps somewhat applicable <i>if</i> society was the way he perceived it, I just don't think that his perception of society was real. I'm guessing, but he strikes me as a very isolated fellow --- not only physically, but mentally too. When you live in isolation you can get strange.<br /><br /><i>with negative writings, it can help confirm one's own beliefs, and accomplish exactly the opposite of what the author intends</i><br /><br />Great point, which highlights that we don't always have to like a book, for it to be a benefit to us!Cleohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13152128642971612433noreply@blogger.com